MONDAY 04/02/02 13:00:41

Adams issues united Ireland poser to unionists

Unionists should begin thinking about the kind of united Ireland they could live in, Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams has argued.

The West Belfast MP, who told a World Economic Forum debate on Northern Ireland on Sunday that a united Ireland must accommodate the needs of unionists, urged their leadership to ``take a leap of imagination`` and begin a dialogue with nationalists.

On the final day of the forum in New York, Mr Adams argued: ``Unionism now needs to begin to seriously thinking about, discussing and engaging with nationalists and republicans about the nature and form a new and acceptable united Ireland might take.

``A united Ireland will not be a cold house for unionists if it guarantees their rights and entitlements, if they have their own place, their own stake in it and a sense of security and ownership.``

The Sinn Fein president said while the main focus of supporters of the Good Friday Agreement should be about sustaining the progress made in the peace process, there was still room for unionists and nationalists to consider the future.

With republicans still committed to achieving a united independent Ireland, he insisted Irish unity would be in the interests of everyone on the island.

``Unionists need to take a hard look at where they currently are and where they could be in the future,`` he said.

``Many unionist and loyalist leaders have said at different times that a united Ireland is inevitable.

``At present unionists are 2% in a British state whose government they distrust. They are constantly told in public opinion polls that the British people really don`t want to have anything to do with them.

``In a new Ireland in which they will make up 20% of the population, there lies greater potential and protection for their needs and interests.

``Republicans are committed to ensuring that a united Ireland will not be a cold house for unionists.``

Mr Adams` comments follow a recent internal Sinn Fein discussion document last month, entitled Road Map to a Republic, urging republicans to begin a debate with unionists and loyalists about the type of united Ireland they could live in.

The West Belfast MP told the World Economic Forum yesterday that nationalists could not force unionists into a united Ireland which did not have their assent and consent.

On 04/02/02 13:01:24, Eoin Money said:

Unionist answer : We won't live in ANY united Ireland. Conclusion : Unionist only recognise the consent principal and democratic process when it suits them. Democrats? Doubt it!

On 04/02/02 13:10:56, Tim said:

I can just see them now franticly typing NO SURRENDER well the day is coming

On 04/02/02 13:30:03, Peter from Dublin said:

These comments from Gerry Adams are very divisive, there meant to shake Unionists and provide lip service to their defunct All Ireland ideal. SF signed up to the GFA which ensures that NI will remain part of the UK for a long long time to come. They should pay more heed to John Hume's vision of a post-Nationalist/Unionist Northern Ireland. What SF are engaging in at the moment is pure rhetoric

On 04/02/02 14:18:03, Multicultural Mucksavage said:

Does Gerry for a minute consider the wishes of the people in southern Ireland. Do we want the bible belt of NI? Do we want IRA and Loyalists terrorists? Nope.

On 04/02/02 14:46:48, To Peter in Dublin said:

Yep, that was your answer as well in the early 70's when we were sitting in Ardoyne with no protection hoping for our brothers in the South to step in and help us. Gerry Adams is anything but divisive. He has the answer to all communities in Northern Ireland and the ROI. Peace and equal treatment for all. John Hume and his SDLPers did very little for the Nationalist people, vis a vis bending to the Unionists at every turn. I don't credit the SDLP with much help for the GFA. Thank Gerry Adams - he's the one that made it work.

On 04/02/02 16:18:00, Niall from Dublin said:

Peter, I'm from Dublin too and see a united Ireland as the only logical long term solution.

On 04/02/02 17:18:07, Peter from Dublin said:

Reply To Niall: I do see a United Ireland as a long term solution but it's a long way away and in order to make a transition peaceful the unification of people is neccessary and divisive rhetoric from Gerry Adams won't help that

On 04/02/02 17:51:05, CARSON from STORMONT said:

Why are we still discussing this republican pipe dream. You signed the GFA which kinda nips it in the bud. Adams has stated Protestants cannot be forced into a united ireland neither can it be achieved without their ascent, if you think that that will ever come in the near future you really need to think again girls.

On 04/02/02 18:29:58, Alan Day from Cookstown said:

I would willingly DISCUSS a united Ireland with anyone. A devolved Ulster from the republic? An independent Ulster from either the ROI or GB (but in the commonwealth). To begin there is much the ROI would have to change before I would even consider the merits of ANY union with ROI. The violent irish national anthem would have to be rewritten. An all-ireland flag (St. Patricks cross???). English and Irish languages given equal status and the removal of irish proficiency as a prerequisit for employment in state agencies. The reform or a new constitition. "In the name of the most Holy Trinity, from whom all authority and to whom as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred." "our Divine Lord Jesus Christ". This wording is unacceptable to some religious groups. Gratefully remembering our fathers heroic and unremitting struggle through centuries of trial to regain the rightful independence of our nation". "Unity of our country restored". "...who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial". This wording is triumphalist, Anglophobic and vigorously nationalist. They are inappropriate to the modern state and reflect only one view of history. I strongly recommend this wording is removed. People in NI can have dual Irish/British passports and citizenship. This duality should be extended to an all-ireland basis to accomodate southern unionists. Hows that for starters?

On 04/02/02 18:31:08, Alan Day from Cookstown said:

On occasions I actually find my self agreeing with Sinn Fein / Gerry Adams. Pray tell what was the point of Irish Independence? The oaths of never again being bound in union? By joining the Euro you have surrendered the Irish Economy, money, fiscal policy, political autonomy and ultimately Irish Sovereignty to unelected bankers, european quangos and corrupt european commissions, parliaments, council of europe ect ect. and all the other HUGE beaurocrasy(spelling???). Tony Blair and his cronies may well want the Euro but the UK/British public does not. It would be the beginning of the end of democracy. If on the other hand we were talking of integration with the US and monetry union with the US then I would be in favour. The difference is democracy, accountability and the fact that our economies, politics and social structures are more akin as is Irelands. As to Ulster/ NI joining. Why? We have the best of both worlds. The advantages of being part of the UK, yet having a land border with the Republic/Euro zone with various shops accepting euro and sterling (Dunnes, Safeway, Heatons).

On 04/02/02 18:35:41, Alan Day from Cookstown said:

I have been puzzling, over the past week, about a statistic which I find hard to believe, even harder to explain. It is this: Within the Republic of Ireland there are between 500,000 and 600,000 men and women who hold British passports. The statistic derives from the British Embassy, and is construed from the fact that each year, on average, 70,000 passports are either renewed, changed, or issued, to people resident in the Republic of Ireland. The life of a British passport is ten years, giving a multiple for the overall result from the total turnover. It is not an active list on which the Embassy relies. No overall record is kept by the British Embassy of all the passports, the ownership of the first of which could go back for many decades. The Embassy works on current requirements, not on history. But the regular, on going nature of the demand is a reliable and valid expression of the reality. And it means that around 15pc of the population of this independent, sovereign, Irish State see themselves as "British". Since only 2pc-3pc of the population of the Republic is Protestant, a huge number of those holding British passports are Catholic. Since you cannot have a passport until you are sixteen, and cannot get a British one if Irish born in Ireland after 1949, the overwhelming majority of these British passport-holders are voters. We have to allow, in this analysis, for extreme and eccentric cases, where nationalists or republicans hold British passports for "political" reasons, as others might hold them for commercial or economic reasons. But there still remain huge numbers who, by definition, belong to this remarkably substantial and on-going "minority" in the State, who favour "Britishness" as part of their make-up.

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On 04/02/02 18:42:13, SK from Dublin said:

Peter, I'm a Dub myself and I've no doubts that a united Ireland is the only viable long-term solution. Unionists need to wake up and realise that there is no future in clinging to the flag of a country that wants nothing to do with them. Its time to move on, end this 80 year old sulk and accept what everybody, even the British they claim to be so loyal to, see as inevitable. Wake up, please. I doubt you'll disagree that most in Dublin dont share you're point of view, Peter. Do you not think we owe people like "to Peter" our support down here?

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On 04/02/02 22:11:15, Protestant from Belfast said:

The IRA failled to bomb and shoot the Protestant people into a United Ireland for the last 30 years, we are hardly going to be convinced by Adams's meaningless and insulting words.

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On 05/02/02 00:31:36, To Carson from Anne from said:

It's only a pipe dream in your dreams. Blair and his bunch of merry men will not put up with the so-called loyalist antics much longer. They are preparing to cut you loose, with or without the referendum. That is what these so-called loyalists know and are truly the most afraid of. Britain is no longer in a position to pump millions of pounds into Northern Ireland to keep a ridiculously embarassing unionist status quo. They have a choice to keep bailing money into Northern Ireland or protect their own economy. Anybody with any common sense knows they will bail out. No amount of so-called loyalist whinging is going to change that.

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On 05/02/02 00:46:12, Wheatfield Nationalist from Upper Ardoyne said:

To "CARSON"; get real, whilst you cannot be forced at the moment we will not need 1% never mind 100% of unionists to give their consent to bring about the united Ireland. In 15 years time there will be enough Nationalist votes to make the dream a reality. Democracy is majority rule, and although unionists think that means the majority of unionists it doesn't, there will be no repeat of the partition fiasco of 1921 with 20% having their wish over the 80% Majority wishes. You may want to keep a look out for the census report, which has already had leaked figures to soften the blow.

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On 05/02/02 04:15:59, realistic from said:

Once again a nationalist bends over backwards to be conciliatory and once again he is met with the usual....(Carson-good handle)you know what. Peter,calling a mild and conciliatory speech like this "divisive" is ridiculous, I think that you are calling for self-censorship,well,forget it. Unionists may be "offended" when they hear an opinion different than their own,but in an open society they had better get used to it because free speech is non-negotiable.

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On 05/02/02 05:33:02, to carson from said:

Remember the rock!

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On 05/02/02 11:36:06, Andrew from Yorkshire said:

What census results have been leaked? I should love to know, as someone who studies demographic trends in Ulster. I can tell you the latest results from the Continuous Household Survey (which interviews 24,000 people across Northern Ireland). The religious figures were as follows: Catholic 42%; Protestant 54%; None 4%. This shows only a very marginal increase in the Catholic population (up form 41.5% in 1991). Please bear in mind the the CHS is conducted every year and is independetnly verified. Thus, if the Census results show the Catholic population approaching 50% we perhaps beeter be asking ourselves how many Sinn Fein households listed great uncle Seamus (who died in 1971) as a living relative - if you get my meaning.

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On 05/02/02 11:55:41, Jim from Limavady said:

Well said Carson, couldn't have put it better myself. Gerry you are the weakest link, goodbye!

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On 05/02/02 12:49:37, Justin, to Alan Day from Dublin, Ireland said:

Just a couple of things in response to what Alan said about changes needed in the South. I've been a Sinn Fein member for years and personally, and for most party activists I know generally, I wouldn't have a problem with almost anything you suggest. Want to re-write the anthem? Fair enough. Change the flag? Doesn't bother me. Equal status for the languages? No worries, though there will be a need for Irish speakers for those people who want to conduct their business in that language. Get the religious references out of the Constitution? Not a problem either. Republicanism is a secular political ideology. Keeping British passports for those who want them wouldn't be a problem either. Unless the Brits make it one. As to your points about the South surrendering sovreignety to Europe. I agree absolutely, which is why Sinn Fein campaigned against the Nice Treaty and European integration. Lastly, as to why the North should join, it makes economic sense, it is the only possible solution left to the problems of partition (Because we've tried everything else) and, it's going to happen. The only question is what kind of Irish Republic is built and the sooner Unionism gets involved in that debate, the better for all, especially the Unionist community.

On 05/02/02 16:33:30, Andrew from Yorkshire said:

Republicans just don't get it do they. Unionists would, by the very definition of the word, cease to be Unionists if they consented to an all-Ireland state. Unionists are not just opposed to the idea of a republic because of the religious or political aspects of it. They feel totally repulsed (as do I) to the very notion of an arrangement that they have spent all their lives trying to avoid. The pro-Union people will NOT live in a united Ireland and if I receive responses calling me bigoted, moronic etc. ad infinitum, it still doesn't alter the situation that Unionists will not consent to such an arrangement. So stop trying on the 'in your face' united Ireland rhetoric - it won't wash. It didn't wash in 1912 and it won't wash today, whatever the new realites of contemporary Britain.

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On 05/02/02 17:21:07, to Anne and other muppets from CARSON said:

You just keep kidding yourselves there girls, go read the GFA and see what it says and remember your heroes signed up to it. Anne no one is whinging, merely stating the facts of the case my dear, don't like then take yourself somewhere else. Wheatfield what cenus are you refering to as I would like to know also. Realsitic, what "you know what" are you talking about, I merely listened to Gerrys words and repeated them for you as they seem to have passed you all by and when you say "handle" is that old CB talk for name, just wondering maybe you could clear that up. And the final poster who addressed me (Mr no name) what rock exactly am I supposed to remember Alcatraz, Gilbraltar, your point is lost on me I'm afraid. Finally, thanks Jim and remember "WE WILL NEVER FORSAKE THE BLUE SKIES OF ULSTER FOR THE DARK GREY SKIES OF THE REPUBLIC".

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On 05/02/02 18:55:34, SK from Dublin said:

A lot of what Alan Day said in his first comment sound very reasonable, make quite a lot of sense too and personally I'd have very little problem with most of the changes he suggests (apart from the removal of the tricolour and the anthem), especially if Unionists would feel more at ease in a United Ireland as a result--Its not about winning or losing, its about setting things right. Its a pity that discussions such as those proposed by Gerry Adams didnt take place thirty years ago, better yet, 80 years ago when this partition farce was introduced. It might have saved a few thousand lives.

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On 05/02/02 21:55:07, to Gerry Adams from Phil +the unionist people said:

Tell ya what, we will maybe think about it when you declare your war over and you cease your attempts to remove the loyal people of this country by any means. Note I said maybe.

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On 05/02/02 22:53:45, fd from said:

Dear Carson,take your head out of your ass and look up.....See.. We have the same dark gray skies in Ulster!

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On 06/02/02 00:53:57, Paul from Belfast said:

Only protestant fools interested in short term financial gain would consider a united Ireland. N. Ireland is already becoming a cold place for protestants and a united Ireland would be an artic wasteland for them.

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On 06/02/02 02:15:51, A Loyalist from London said:

Dont worry Ulster, All this talk of a united ireland is very unlikely and should be taken as a wind up. While a border exists, Britain will defend it. And if you have to then alter the border and give the armagh bit to the south. Close your ears to the words United Ireland. The only thing that needs to be united in Ireland is the Loyalists. DO THIS AND YOU CANT FAIL.

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On 06/02/02 05:10:37, to Carson from said:

I though that you were savy enough to have read what Blair is doing with Gilbraltar but I guess I was wrong. This should be a warning to unionist.

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On 06/02/02 05:11:57, to andrew from said:

Again I ask you what happened in your past to make you so bigoted and full of hate?

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On 06/02/02 10:09:05, mickey from Free Derry from said:

To Andrew from Yorkshire and Carson...thank you for participating in this debate on the future United Ireland.Oh and by the way..I accept John Daly's comments totally..but Carson and Andrew should try to come up with more practical and logical reasons from being part of the U.K rather than sheer intransigence and pig-headedness otherwise Ireland will be re-unified quicker than I first anticipated.

On 06/02/02 11:59:06, For Justin... from Jim, Limavady said:

When you say secular are you referring to Bloody Friday? You couldn't mean Kingsmills could you? As a member of a party "inextricably linked" to a terrorist gang your opinions should be treated with utter contempt until your party puts an end to religious genocide, disarms and disbands it's terrorist wing, apologises for decades of sectarian violence and ceases to be and repays all it's victims for the death and destruction it has caused.

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On 06/02/02 15:36:52, Andrew from Yorkshire said:

And what reasoning do you, Mickey, give for the label of being a nationalist? Adherence to a foreign state that has taken a divergent path to that of your own for eighty years? A refusal to accept facts ie. that you are a British subject living within the UK. By the way if the concept of the British state abhors you, perhaps you can explain why that same state is home to over a million citizens from the great Republic.

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On 06/02/02 15:53:19, To Alan Day from said:

Most Republicans would agree with you Alan Day. No problem, when do you want to do it?

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On 06/02/02 16:01:55, Willie from said:

Carson and Andrew and Loyalist from London - you can twist facts, rant, rave, pout and dispute. It won't matter in the end. The days of anti-Catholicism and anti-Irish rhetoric have arrived and I think most people on this post recognize the anger in your posts. I have to thank Alan Day for his post. Republicans for the most part would have no problem with what you suggest for Unionists to be happy with a United Ireland. Perhaps there would be a few points here and there for both sides to compromise, but I don't see very many hurdles if Unionist could get over the Battle of the Boyne. We are all brothers, we come from the same place. We all want the same things for our children. Let the discussion begin.

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On 06/02/02 18:32:19, CARSON from STORMONT said:

So let us begin. Willie I'm not twisting any facts as well you know, if you don't then I would suggest you read over the statements that your own illustrious leader has made, they are no different from what I have prevously said, nothing was twisted. FD, you may need to take your brain out of your ass for you obviously fail to understand that under southern rule the skies of Ulster would be a damn sight bloody darker for us Protestants than they are now mate. And for the person who mentioned the rock, fair enough I understand, I had actually made a comment on the very same story but had left that one behind and was so enthralled by this one that it had slipped my mind, we not all infallible. And Mickey I don't think that you are anyone to talk of intransigence or pig headedness when you refuse to refer to your own town by its given name, a republican calling someone else pig headed or intransigent is surely some sort of joke, is it not. And where are your practical and logical reasons for a united ireland, I would reckon the only reason you would have is the same reason you make the posts you do and refer to your town in the way that you do, because you are a republican who has been bred and brain washed by your own propaganda to make you this way and like many of you it is impossible to do anything different.

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On 06/02/02 18:58:29, Alan Day from Cookstown said:

To SK. It would not necesarily mean the removal of the tri-colour. It would depend on the 'type' of united ireland. A devolved ulster within a united ireland could involve the tri-colour for the south, an ulster flag of some discription and an all-ireland st patricks cross flag. OR and independent ulster/NI within the commonwealth with strong north-south bodies and a stregthened british-irish council/council of the isles (Dail, Stormont, Scottish, Welsh, Manx, Guernsey, Jersey ect)......lots of options

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On 07/02/02 01:55:02, realistic from said:

Alan Day should be commended for his intelligent post.He has raised a number of issues from a Unionist perspective that nationalists and republicans can look at. This kind of post does a lot more for Unionists than the typical anti-Catholic rant one so often finds here.

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On 07/02/02 04:09:36, DY from said:

Time has come we must talk about the pro's and con's of one Ireland,2%verse's 20%. you could be president or Ireland but, never King of England, unless you are Church of England. Perhaps Trimble and Unionists could be the big winners if they won the New Ireland back into the Commonwealth. There has to be give and take,people down in the south must help,we are the same people no one will get what they want in total.

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On 07/02/02 05:10:52, cheesey from tora bora 2nd cave to the left said:

i think if our so called professional sh*t stirrers faced facts that its time stop blaming each other and dragging up ancient history(1690 and 1916 for god's sake catch a grip)and went back to what they do best.for gerry it's back behind the bar (two pint's of harp and packet of crisps please) big ian can go back to fondling his flock in the back of beyond(futher the better) trimble can always become a jehova's witness (can't get any more boring)martin can try making a come back with paul simon (darius he aint).or plan b dump the whole bloody lot on rathlin island and leaave for 50 or 60 years

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On 07/02/02 09:03:25, YAWN... from said:

What on earth does a 'British subject' mean these days? Andrew, you are a bitter, twisted, Unchristian person and your seething nature is becoming more and more apparent.

On 07/02/02 09:48:02, Mickey From Free Derry from said:

To Carson.Whether I am Republican minded or not isn't the issue.I am what I am because of my own personal experiences throughout my relatively young life thus far, and not because of any brainwashing or indoctrination.In fact every July and August we see the best examples of brainwashing and indoctrination techniques from the Orange dis-Order!Furthermore the term Free Derry is a term of endearment,Derry is the name Catholics & Prods use here...and to be called "intransigent" as a result is a typical cheapshot from a loyaltit!....and all this from a guy who calls himself "Carson from Stormont".So would you like to be 2% with no say in a government who wants rid of you ASAP, OR 20% in an inclusive re-Unified Ireland, with an enormous say in how you are governed? how's that for practical & logical?

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On 07/02/02 12:05:46, Joshua Mketse from Belfast said:

OK lets debate a united ireland- thought about Gerry- no thanks. Instead we will continue to presuade nationalists of the benefits of being part of a pluralist multi cultural nation such as the UK. Most catholics know the benefits of this link and you can have philisophical debates about a united ireland all day- but harsh reality is it aint likely to happen. Here's a thought- I'll sign up to a united ireland as part of a reintegration into a wider United Kingdom / British Isles state- how does that grab you for openminded?

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On 07/02/02 12:10:00, GER to Andrew from said:

"The pro-Union people will NOT live in a united Ireland...Unionists will not consent to such an arrangement....whatever the new realites of contemporary Britain" Excuse me if I take you up wrong Andrew, but it seems that you are saying Unionists will never accept a united Ireland even if the majority here vote for it. We already know the majority on the "mainland" want a united Ireland and the majority south of the border support reunification, so if the majority vote for it up here, surely unionists will have to accept the democratic will of the people? Please elaborate.

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On 07/02/02 14:19:32, To Carson from Anne from said:

I don't know how much darker it could be for protestants in a united Ireland than it is in Northern Ireland. Unless of course peace and equality are not on your agenda. This fear engendering rhetoric is hogwash and you know it. Protestants and Catholics would be absolutely equal in any United Ireland as they have equal rights now in the 26 counties. As we heard from many protestant residents of Eire, there is no 'ethnic cleansing', no one is asked their religion when applying for anything and all are sharing equally in the Celtic tiger, such as it is with the world instability right now. Listen to common sense rather than orange order rhetoric. We can all live together peacefully if we try.

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On 07/02/02 15:11:39, Andrew from Yorkshire said:

GER: I don't need to restate the obvious. In any case, what is the likelihood of a majority vote in favour of a 'united' Ireland. The last survey in the North showed only 27% support for this option. The oft-misquoted opinion poll in the Republic on 31/12/99 did show that 86% did indeed aspire to an all-Ireland republic but only 29% were prepared to pay higher taxes in order to bring this about. Furthermore, as far as mainland UK is concerned, any desire to 'be rid' of Northern Ireland stems chiefly from the reign of terror that the IRA has, and is, bestowing on citizens here. There is certainly very little love for Irish nationalism or the idiots that make it their political creed.

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On 07/02/02 16:48:22, To Andrew from said:

Stop being so ridiculous and juvenile Andrew. Throw out a few more percentages, it won't change a thing. With the rise of the EEC, borders won't be so important. And, with Nationalists' new commitment to voting and still breeding like rabbits, as you like to point out, we are rising out of the ashes of discrimination and bigotry like yours.

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On 07/02/02 17:31:46, Alan Day from Cookstown said:

What does it mean to be British. To me Britain is a nation of nations. For me personally, to be british, is certainly not to the exclusion of my ulster-scots/irishness but is complimentary to it. It recognises the common values, cultural, religious, economic and social backbone that the nations of the british isles all share,linking us/uniting us.,which cannot really be applied to any other european countries (but perhaps US, Canada, australia, NZ, South Africa). This is my reasoning for the UK and nothing in particular to do with royalism or sectarianism or indeed anti-irishism. The UK is greater than the sum of its individual parts. Individually its one medium country (England) and several small/tiny ones (Ireland/ N. Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Isle of Man, Guernsey, Jersey, Gibraltar ect...) but together we punch well above our weight and pool our resources.

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On 07/02/02 17:55:39, Willie from said:

Alan would you run for prime minister of Northern Ireland? I for one would vote for you.

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On 08/02/02 00:28:51, R.K. from said:

Alan made some pretty good points. An United Ireland might not be so bleak if respect for our culture and heritage could be in some way guaranteed. It would take a monumental effort by the Republican movement to convince us. I have often been down South and I have noticed they're cold attitude to us up North when they hear our accent. I didn't feel to welcome and the skys seemed definitely greyer. I longed to be back up North again amoung my own.

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On 08/02/02 05:31:28, to alan from said:

unless of course you are a catholic living under a secterian bigoted government

On 08/02/02 10:01:14, RB to "to Andrew" from Belfast said:

If you take your trite little argument one step further about the supposed rise of the EC and borders disappearing that also has the effect of merging the republic back with Britain if you think about it. This silly little line makes no sense because if all borders disappear then Northern Ireland is like Spain, Germany rest of the UK etc but also Eire is part of the UK then too:)

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On 08/02/02 10:58:37, Alan from Cork said:

Look, I live in the Republic, my neighbours up until a few years ago were Curch of Ireland I have no recolection of them ever being harassed or discriminated against by anybody in the locality or otherwise. Indeed Cork has a fairly sizeable population of Protestants, so I think the ethnic cleansing claims of Paisley and his ilk are a little overstated. My namesake has made some points that merit further discussion, and to Andrew from Yorkshire, I would say that he would do well to remember the old saying "Englishmen never remember, Irishmen never forget",that is to say any English person I have met would be perfectly willing to jettison NI for the simple reason that there are too many reminders there of their not-too-glorious past

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On 08/02/02 13:21:08, Eoin Money from said:

Thank you Andrew. Whilst little Englanders like yourself support the unionist cause,the nationalist cause will only get stronger. You do not convince anyone, only insult and abuse. Keep it coming mate and I'll tell you what I'll put you up in 20yrs time when Belfast is in it's rightful place as Irelands second city. Yes I am a bigot, but when you've cultural, moral and political superiority on your side, who cares. Ireland will be free and you'll be welcome to visit anytime.

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On 08/02/02 13:32:52, The Joker from said:

The Union flag is still flying over Ulster. Debate over. Not one of the anti-union postings on this site show any recognition or real understanding of the Unionist people of N Ireland. No surprise there, as this has always been the case. To suggest that I would live in a United Ireland - now that is funny. Hey I might even go and live in Greece, a country of similar European standing. The anti-British agenda continues > keep dreaming boys and girls.

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On 08/02/02 14:02:18, GER to Andrew from said:

Errr...I thought I asked you a simple enough question, but clearly not. So I'll try again. If/when there is a majority of the population in the six counties voting for a united Ireland, will you accept this constitutional change? Simply saying the people down south don't REALLY want a united Ireland and dismissing the consensus for withdrawal from the North on mainland Britain is not really an answer. Will you respect the democratic wishes of the population here?

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On 08/02/02 14:58:43, Andrew from Yorkshire said:

Eoin, please stop engaging in ridiculous, fantasy-type politics. Belfast is already the second city on the island of Ireland so there is no change on that front. Didn't Hitler proclaim that German nationalism would get stronger and, regrettably it did for a time. However, in the end the forces of repulsive nationalism will always be defeated. As for moral superiority over 'little Englanders', it is not we that vote for a fascist apologists for terrorism so I think you're a little deluded there. As for political superiority; if you think having a fraternal linkage with FARC, ETA and the PLO amounts to 'superiority' then you really must be working too hard!

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On 08/02/02 15:17:20, RB to Ger from Norn Iron- UK said:

& I put it to you do you and will you continue to respect the majority wish of the people of Northern Ireland as they again and again confirm their desire to be part of the UK?

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On 08/02/02 18:10:43, Alan Day from Cookstown said:

I am not so sure about the bigoted government comment, especially not tony blairs labour government. There is a sizeable catholic population in England, Scotland and Wales. The problem of sectarianism is largely confined to Ulster/Ireland and to a lesser degree Scotland. As to the comment about 'breeding like rabbits'. The protestant birthrate has largely declined on par with the mainland UK birthrate to 2.3 children per couple. Whilst the catholic birthrate in ROI & NI remained significantly higher (for religious reasons..contraception ect) it too has steadily declined and I believe at present it is not too far off being equal with the UK norm. So by the time the effects all filter through the system it could well result in a 50/50 protestant/catholic population or there abouts.

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On 08/02/02 18:24:24, Alan Day from Cookstown said:

To Eoin Money. What exactly was the purpose of you comment and another of your comments "An irrelevant arguement. SF will go from strength to strength, Ireland will be united. Unionists will moan and fight but eventually will accept defeat. No wonder you're all so angry, THE FUTURE'S BRIGHT, THE FUTURE'S NOT ORANGE.". I fail to see how you comments will result in a united ireland. Certainly not and agreed Ireland or a Peaceful Ireland. Your comments divulge your bitterness and only stirs up hatred, bigotry and sectarianism, alienates the unionist community of Ireland/Ulster and compounds peoples resolve along the lines of "No Surrender". Your comments only serve to divide the two communities when you should be trying to convince unionists of your dream rather than trying to Defeat Unionism. As David Ervine of the PUP once said over the last 80 (or even 500) years and particularly ther last 30 it has become apparent that the nationalist movement is uncrushable and also that the unionist/loyalist movement is equally uncrushable....so what is the point in CONFLICT.

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On 09/02/02 12:47:14, Eoin Money from said:

Why should a Republican care about Unionist concerns, we never had the same courtesy extended to us. Yes I'm bigotted, bitter and jingoistic but as a united Ireland draws ever closer I for one wish to savour our victory. Unionists have celebrated their biggest victory for over 300yrs and continue to try and antagonise and alienate their neighbours with their divisive celebrations each year. I don't feel guilty, I feel proud that the struggle is at last poducing tangible results. My only concerns is when unity is achieved will Unionist accept it and change or will it need to be forced apon them, I don't see the need for armed struggle on the Republican side any more but I do worry that we may be forced into a situation of crushing extremist loyalists who cannot accpt that the political situation is changed and will change beyond recognition in the not too distant future. Sorry, but some of us mistreated by this statelet do not always feel completely generous as changes to the unionist position of dominance are forced apon them.

On 09/02/02 16:35:41, Geoff from Lancs said:

well put alan, ENOUGH bigotry and name calling, we are all brothers after all, so lets get on with turfing out the violence and criminal elements which these so called political organisations still have control over, and get on with each other. Tell me, do we not ALL support Ireland in the rugby?

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On 10/02/02 10:30:17, Hazeldee from said:

To Tim. now I have typed it NO SURRENDER, NO UNITED IRELAND NO ROME RULE IN ULSTER, BRITISH FOREVER.

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On 10/02/02 19:01:47, George from said:

As N.I is part of the U.K,should it not be by the votes of the 'british' people to decide whether they wish to keep funding N.I or return it from the country which it was originally separated from?? As for e.g. the people of Hong Kong alone were not able to decide on their own destiny!!!!!